Conversation with Heather "Milk?" Gold

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Heather RT Last wk judge ruled that YesOn8 donors must be made public. Names were released today! http://bit.ly/1488O & http://bit.ly/ByRl (list).via Twitter - 3:33pm - Comment

 
Noah David Simon at 1:20am February 3
Big Brother is Gay?

Heather Milk Gold at 5:09pm February 3
Nothing big brother-y at all about having transparency with political contributions. Partnof democracy. Donations to *all* campaigns are public including no on 8's.

In order to be "Big Brother" one would have to be anonymous (all no on 8/pro gay marriage orgs and donors are public) and in power (we lost. Gay peeps have least legal standing/power/rights in the nation).

 
Noah David Simon at 8:36pm February 3
that is about as balanced as Ron Paul isolationist statement and it sounds like something Joseph McCarthy would say. all for the transparency. great... I'm for nudity on all beaches. I don't want any bitching about Cellulite. come now... we all know about the Prop8 blacklisting going on. lame!

Heather Milk Gold at 1:18pm February 4
You think political donations should always be secret? Transparency is the issue the court ruled on and one that I support 100%.

 
Noah David Simon at 1:32pm February 4
now you want to reveal and black list people who are fighting your hate. your transparency is glaringly arbitrary as is your concept of social contracts. "Gay Marriage" is terribly un-transparent in that it does not reflect the biological truth that you have no dangers with pregnancy. you are taking government support away from people burdened with pregnancy because of hate and bigotry and I do not approve of it. what is good for the geese is good for the gander or whatever the in-between label they have for gay birds is. I can't wait to get the Pilosi people out of power.

Heather Milk Gold at 1:36pm February 4
Dude, I have never said a thing about black listing. I'm really not sure what you're talking about. "Taking government support away from.." ? I didn't write anything like that. I said I'm glad the court decided the donors to the campaigns have to be public. btw, I'm in the process of planning pregnancy right now.

And I live in Pelosi's district and didn't vote for her. You've made a whole lot of assumptions there.

 
Noah David Simon at 1:38pm February 4
yeah I know about the Pelosi alternative too. even worse. don't know about the blacklisting? come now!

Heather Milk Gold at 1:42pm February 4
Unclear from your notes. Do you support my legal equality and right to marry or no?

Heather Milk Gold at 1:42pm February 4
Legally speaking, that is. We're already married and that's not really up to anyone else.

 
Noah David Simon at 1:43pm February 4
here is some info from google for the Sheehan haters http://www.google.com/sear

ch?hl=en&safe=off&client=s

afari&rls=yi&pwst=1&sa=X&o

i=spell&resnum=1&ct=result

&cd=1&q=prop+8+blacklist&s

pell=1

Heather Milk Gold at 1:43pm February 4
I don't hate anyone, btw.

 
Noah David Simon at 1:45pm February 4
I support your right to do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt other people. taking away social contract that are honest and reflect the reality on the ground is bigotry and hate and I will not allow it. you can apply for the same benefits once you adopt and not before. It would be unfair to children and parents otherwise.

Heather Milk Gold at 1:47pm February 4
My focus is on equalitycamp.com and doing everything I can to build our movement by reaching out to people one on one.

But if people want to choose another hotel instead of Marriott, that doesn't bother me. That's choice.

The way we will eventually win our legal rights is reaching out to people and finding common ground. But also not accepting poor treatment.

I hope the Mormon Church will stand behind its statements that it supports some rights for gay couples and individuals. I know Equality Utah is working on a Common Ground law and has taken out ads asking the Mormon Church to work with it.

Heather Milk Gold at 1:50pm February 4
Where have you read me say that I want to take away a right from anyone?

I'm going to give birth, so I won't be adopting. NY State law already states both my wife and I will be on the birth certificate for the child. I don't see how our having a family harms anyone. on the contrary, it invests us in working harder for family protections for all.

 
Noah David Simon at 1:56pm February 4
I support your right to do whatever you want... but when you are talking about a legal contract you are talking about "meaning" that applies to a real situation. giving privileges to those that don't need it is not an attribute our government should aspire to. a marriage means something. It has a civil meaning that the Prop8 blacklisters do not respect. Obviously this is not just an absolutist strict constitutional argument either. I believe there is enough hate and violence coming from the gay community that I have experienced first hand that I can say that this is by no means a theoretical argument. I could get into the details of my experiences in NYC when my son was born four years ago... but I'd rather not. This goes beyond legalities and reflects a reality where I do not believe "Gay Marriage" is about equality at all.

 
Noah David Simon at 1:57pm February 4
you chose to have the child. straight people don't have that choice. a legal contract should reflect that.

Heather Milk Gold at 2:04pm February 4
I am gay and married. I agree that marriage means something. That's why we're married. It is a real situation.

Stacey and I don't have the same tax benefits as straight marriages in most of the country. We don't have the right to visit each other in the hospital in most of the country. We aren't recognized as family when we cross the border traveling together. Many gay couples can't stay together if one is from another country (I am but was able to naturalize and become American). All of these things we need. We take care of each other are committed to each other and deserve all the same recognition of that.

You don't seem to be talking to me about my words or experience but something you've decided on the basis of your experiences with others. I know lots of other Jewish men but I don't imagine everything they did or said is the same as what you would do or say.

Straight folks absolutely choose to have children. Every child born is not an accident.

 
Noah David Simon at 2:10pm February 4
no. I don't only make arguments on theory and logic when arguing hate. that is a given. I only want your social contract to reflect the reality of your situation and not reflect a lie. Is the Gloria Steinem one size fits all part of your feminism 2.0?


Heather Milk Gold at 2:58pm February 4
I honestly do not understand the points you are making. My marriage and our commitment and life needs are all real. We need protection so that our children cannot be taken away from us in other states and so that we are both recognized as our children's parents. That is the reality I'm doing my best to plan for given the drastic legal inequality in many parts of US.

We cannot receive social security and other benefits for each other etc. We will be spending our lives together. That's our reality. Do we have spousal immunity in courts of law? These and many other questions generally leave us unprotected until the law is amended.

 
Noah David Simon at 3:07pm February 4
when you respect my right,... and the reality I deal with (where pregnancy is not an option it is part of life that happens in unwanted circumstances. Abortion is not a healthy option and it is proven to be that even if you think it is a moral thing)... perhaps then you will see what you are talking about is just more blacklisting and hate. you ask for respect, but you give none. your legal status is like Palestine's. it will be DENIED, till it is safe for the other party who is threatened. You can violently reject my rights... or you can acknowledge your situation. the fact that you voted for Sheehan doesn't leave me with much confidence in your understanding of an existential situation.


Heather Milk Gold at 3:19pm February 4
1. You don't know who I voted for and it wasn't Sheehan.

2. What have I done that you feel is violent to you?

3. How are you unsafe? How, specifically am i making you unsafe? I desire safety for everyone. That includes you.

Noah David Simon at 4:08pm February 4
you had not corrected me, and I know Sheehan was a major opposition to Pelosi. I brought it up above.

violence would be attempting to take my rights to special government support away for your theoretical needs that you can chose to burden yourself. I've experienced tremendous hostility from the "Gay" community in NYC. I've lost my job at "The Black Book" due to this exact issue partly. The man I worked next to was gay and while I showed him nothing but tolerance, he showed nothing but contempt, which is ironic because I was one of the few heterosexual males that didn't contempt people for sexual lifestyles at that company. I've had a $4000 PowerBook destroyed at Starbucks merely for questioning this issue. I do not feel safe. I understand your community has been burdened by bigotry, but you are giving off nothing but that hate. This is not theory. This is real. I sympathize with your situation, but your community is not compromising on taking away straight people's rights

Noah David Simon at 4:25pm February 4
compound this to a NYC environment where people were telling me I should have to get a license to procreate? how about the "breeder" jokes. if it weren't real I wouldn't be involved. The law will evolve when the hatred is put away, but I assure you that marriage is a civil contract that needs to reflect people, not the theory that you can chose to go to a sperm bank. where is my choice? this is some affirmative action you will not get from me. my rights will not be compromised by your hypothetical mono culture.

Heather Milk Gold at 5:21pm February 4
Overall it sounds like you've had some bad experiences with other people (none of which are me). So I'm not sure why you assume I believe or support things that others may have that you feel hurt you.

One thing at a time here so I can handle it:

"violence would be attempting to take my rights to special government support away"

What are you your rights to special gov't support ? I don't know what this is. I don't advocate you losing any rights whatsoever, and no gay equality or gay marriage group I'm aware of does either.

Noah David Simon at 6:14pm February 4
there are violent economic ramifications in California and New York. To deny this is silly and you would have to be pretty smug to pretend the social networking "blocks" haven't gone haywire over this issue.

Noah David Simon at 6:44pm February 4
to be supported in "hetero" needs are the government institutions I ask for and we get this through "marriage". Marriage is a convention and social contract you want to water down with people that don't have the situation where they are facing a reality where they face no choice.... which you have. the violence comes from your inability to realize that there is a real threat from your community to people that speak out or finance Prop8... especially in places where the Gay Community is powerful. it is violence to ignore that reality... I have faced it first hand. there is also smug lack of respect that I am feeling. The first part of respecting difference is in respecting my difference. which you and the gay community have not. you are denying a real violence. economic and physical. try being a young poor single straight male in an urban gay community and try renting an apartment. try socializing outside the "Republican" community onlline and meet the Scoble fascists. bigotry

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